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	<title>Comments on: Sex and Shanghai&#8217;s &#8216;Chinabounder&#8217;: Pimple-Faced Geek in Denver, or Traitor in Our Midst?</title>
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	<link>http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/</link>
	<description>An American who taught in China in 1993-94 returns for a visit in 2006 with his native Chinese wife and their two pre-schoolers.</description>
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		<title>By: A Blogger&#8217;s Manifesto &#187; Blog Archive &#187; sex and Shanghai</title>
		<link>http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/comment-page-1/#comment-19091</link>
		<dc:creator>A Blogger&#8217;s Manifesto &#187; Blog Archive &#187; sex and Shanghai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 19:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Postcards from China, &#8220;Sex and Shanghai&#8217;s Chinabounder&#8220; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Postcards from China, &#8220;Sex and Shanghai&#8217;s Chinabounder&#8220; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JH</title>
		<link>http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/comment-page-1/#comment-15582</link>
		<dc:creator>JH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 07:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/#comment-15582</guid>
		<description>LARedneck, what you say about the White man no longer fearing the Black man&#039;s sexuality is simply untrue. 

White men in the US are still mortally afraid of the Black man&#039;s sexuality. 

That is why you will very rarely see a Black man and a White woman paired in a sexual relationship in an American movie, despite Black male/White female parings being extremely commonplace in American society.

Even Denzel Washington, who is considered a sex-symbol by many Americans, very rarely has any type of sexual relations with White women on screen, for fear of upsetting White sensibilities. The screenplay for the movie &quot;The Pelican Brief&quot; was actually changed from a love story to a non-love story to allow Denzel Washington and Julia Roberts to be paired opposite each other. This article explains a little more. http://www.cbc.ca/arts/film/skingame.html

It obviously just doesn&#039;t extend to Black men. The closest Zhou Runfa got to Jodie Foster in the movie Anna and the King was kissing her hand at the very end of the movie. Think about it, an American movie where on screen sexuality is so prevalent, and the the closest a male lead gets to his female partner in a love story is a kiss on the hand. 

On the other hand, White males being paired with woman of other races is hugely popular in American cinema, eg. &quot;The Bodyguard&quot;, any movie with Lucy Liu or almost any other Asian actress for that matter.

I would almost go as far as to say the reason the US cannot solve many of it&#039;s racial problems is because of the White man&#039;s fear of the Black man&#039;s sexuality. I believe the White man fears that once Blacks have economic equality with White men in America, the White man will lose even more of their women to Black men. 

The history of America suggests that this may be true. It has been argued that Jim Crow laws around the turn of the 20th Century were formulated out of a fear of the Black man&#039;s sexuality. Emmett Till, a young boy, was brutally murdered in the 1950&#039;s for merely whistling at a white girl and American sensibilities with regard to Black men in cinema that I have briefly touched upon above suggest that the the fear of Black sexuality is still very much alive in America today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LARedneck, what you say about the White man no longer fearing the Black man&#8217;s sexuality is simply untrue. </p>
<p>White men in the US are still mortally afraid of the Black man&#8217;s sexuality. </p>
<p>That is why you will very rarely see a Black man and a White woman paired in a sexual relationship in an American movie, despite Black male/White female parings being extremely commonplace in American society.</p>
<p>Even Denzel Washington, who is considered a sex-symbol by many Americans, very rarely has any type of sexual relations with White women on screen, for fear of upsetting White sensibilities. The screenplay for the movie &#8220;The Pelican Brief&#8221; was actually changed from a love story to a non-love story to allow Denzel Washington and Julia Roberts to be paired opposite each other. This article explains a little more. <a href="http://www.cbc.ca/arts/film/skingame.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbc.ca/arts/film/skingame.html</a></p>
<p>It obviously just doesn&#8217;t extend to Black men. The closest Zhou Runfa got to Jodie Foster in the movie Anna and the King was kissing her hand at the very end of the movie. Think about it, an American movie where on screen sexuality is so prevalent, and the the closest a male lead gets to his female partner in a love story is a kiss on the hand. </p>
<p>On the other hand, White males being paired with woman of other races is hugely popular in American cinema, eg. &#8220;The Bodyguard&#8221;, any movie with Lucy Liu or almost any other Asian actress for that matter.</p>
<p>I would almost go as far as to say the reason the US cannot solve many of it&#8217;s racial problems is because of the White man&#8217;s fear of the Black man&#8217;s sexuality. I believe the White man fears that once Blacks have economic equality with White men in America, the White man will lose even more of their women to Black men. </p>
<p>The history of America suggests that this may be true. It has been argued that Jim Crow laws around the turn of the 20th Century were formulated out of a fear of the Black man&#8217;s sexuality. Emmett Till, a young boy, was brutally murdered in the 1950&#8242;s for merely whistling at a white girl and American sensibilities with regard to Black men in cinema that I have briefly touched upon above suggest that the the fear of Black sexuality is still very much alive in America today.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Baker</title>
		<link>http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/comment-page-1/#comment-287</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Oct 2006 01:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/#comment-287</guid>
		<description>For a topic related to some themes you touch on, see today&#039;s post &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://the88s.blogsome.com/2006/10/21/boycott-chinese-girls-who-date-white-guys/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Boycott Chinese Girls Who Date White Guys&lt;a/&gt;&quot; at the 88s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a topic related to some themes you touch on, see today&#8217;s post &#8220;<a href="http://the88s.blogsome.com/2006/10/21/boycott-chinese-girls-who-date-white-guys/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Boycott Chinese Girls Who Date White Guys<a />&#8221; at the 88s.</a></p>
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		<title>By: LARedneck</title>
		<link>http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/comment-page-1/#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator>LARedneck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Oct 2006 00:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/#comment-286</guid>
		<description>I am sorry I did not have the opportunity to read this much discussed Blog before its removal. Apparently, from what I can read, it MAY have been a hoax with intents unknown. Perhaps this was not a hoax. Regardless, it has apparently opened the floodgates of discussion on culture, racism, sexuality in China, etc. For these reasons only, it may be a good thing.


Dialogue here, or any forum, on matters of sexuality, politics, religion, the environment, human rights, cultures, etc. can only be a good thing. All people’s opinion has some merit.


I am an American planning to teach at a renown University in Shanghai in 2007. I hope to be able to, in some small way, help further alleviate the still present xenophobia that still exists in China. Before I am attacked, let me say this.


Socially China is about 30 years behind the USA, but trying So hard to close this gap. For decades, until the 1980’s, American white males were intimidated of the myth of the black man’s sexual endowment and prowess. Then they began to realize the myth was false and USA women, Asian women and women worldwide were less interested in myths than in a mans ability to commit to a long-term loving relationship, fidelity and his ability to provide for her and any children.


No country “owns” their native women. I suggest if any Chinese men feel intimidated or threatened by foreigners that they first stop, take a deep breath or two, and take a look at themselves and their peers. Maybe they should do extensive readings and research on Internet website and Blogs to read what their Chinese Sisters write about concerning their attitudes towards Chinese men. Take a hard look. Maybe you will not feel good, flattered, feel you have lost “Face”, etc. However, I submit, continuing to be in a state of denial will not solve any problems.

The Chinese male must understand their days as “The King, Emperor”, “Ruler of the Roost”, etc. are over in China. Chinese women are sexually liberated, a growing fixture in the workplace and not a second class sex to be kept at home when the man feels like playing with her. They have feelings, needs, choices and free to act on them.


I am sorry if I have offended anyone’s senses, feelings, etc. The fact remains, the subject of so much controversy was probably a hoax. If not, at very least it should evoke some serious thought and introspect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am sorry I did not have the opportunity to read this much discussed Blog before its removal. Apparently, from what I can read, it MAY have been a hoax with intents unknown. Perhaps this was not a hoax. Regardless, it has apparently opened the floodgates of discussion on culture, racism, sexuality in China, etc. For these reasons only, it may be a good thing.</p>
<p>Dialogue here, or any forum, on matters of sexuality, politics, religion, the environment, human rights, cultures, etc. can only be a good thing. All people’s opinion has some merit.</p>
<p>I am an American planning to teach at a renown University in Shanghai in 2007. I hope to be able to, in some small way, help further alleviate the still present xenophobia that still exists in China. Before I am attacked, let me say this.</p>
<p>Socially China is about 30 years behind the USA, but trying So hard to close this gap. For decades, until the 1980’s, American white males were intimidated of the myth of the black man’s sexual endowment and prowess. Then they began to realize the myth was false and USA women, Asian women and women worldwide were less interested in myths than in a mans ability to commit to a long-term loving relationship, fidelity and his ability to provide for her and any children.</p>
<p>No country “owns” their native women. I suggest if any Chinese men feel intimidated or threatened by foreigners that they first stop, take a deep breath or two, and take a look at themselves and their peers. Maybe they should do extensive readings and research on Internet website and Blogs to read what their Chinese Sisters write about concerning their attitudes towards Chinese men. Take a hard look. Maybe you will not feel good, flattered, feel you have lost “Face”, etc. However, I submit, continuing to be in a state of denial will not solve any problems.</p>
<p>The Chinese male must understand their days as “The King, Emperor”, “Ruler of the Roost”, etc. are over in China. Chinese women are sexually liberated, a growing fixture in the workplace and not a second class sex to be kept at home when the man feels like playing with her. They have feelings, needs, choices and free to act on them.</p>
<p>I am sorry if I have offended anyone’s senses, feelings, etc. The fact remains, the subject of so much controversy was probably a hoax. If not, at very least it should evoke some serious thought and introspect.</p>
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		<title>By: crycamel</title>
		<link>http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/comment-page-1/#comment-141</link>
		<dc:creator>crycamel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Sep 2006 08:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/#comment-141</guid>
		<description>To MF:
    What&#039;s Whtjohn&#039;s blog?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To MF:<br />
    What&#8217;s Whtjohn&#8217;s blog?</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/comment-page-1/#comment-139</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Sep 2006 23:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/#comment-139</guid>
		<description>You mean to tell me that I could very well be in the same city as this guy?  Whoa.....that&#039;s harsh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mean to tell me that I could very well be in the same city as this guy?  Whoa&#8230;..that&#8217;s harsh</p>
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		<title>By: MF</title>
		<link>http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/comment-page-1/#comment-128</link>
		<dc:creator>MF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Sep 2006 12:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/#comment-128</guid>
		<description>To John (comment no. 1):

Sure, foreign teachers blog accounts of their supposed sexual conquests.  There was a guy called &quot;Whtjohn,&quot; I think, who used to comment on Dave&#039;s ESL Cafe.  Somebody looked up his blog, and in it he talked about how he taught at Kunming Medical University, and it had pictures of all these students he had supposedly slept with, with names and everything.  This guy was about sixty, big beer belly, and while I&#039;m sure he could be attractive to someone, I got the distinct impression that the girls in the photo, who were all like 20, had just posed for what they thought was a innocent photo that he&#039;d send to family or something.  Pretty sad.  After people gave him a hard about the site he took it offline and sort of dropped off the web.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To John (comment no. 1):</p>
<p>Sure, foreign teachers blog accounts of their supposed sexual conquests.  There was a guy called &#8220;Whtjohn,&#8221; I think, who used to comment on Dave&#8217;s ESL Cafe.  Somebody looked up his blog, and in it he talked about how he taught at Kunming Medical University, and it had pictures of all these students he had supposedly slept with, with names and everything.  This guy was about sixty, big beer belly, and while I&#8217;m sure he could be attractive to someone, I got the distinct impression that the girls in the photo, who were all like 20, had just posed for what they thought was a innocent photo that he&#8217;d send to family or something.  Pretty sad.  After people gave him a hard about the site he took it offline and sort of dropped off the web.</p>
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		<title>By: fiLi's world</title>
		<link>http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/comment-page-1/#comment-119</link>
		<dc:creator>fiLi's world</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/#comment-119</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;China : Sex, Pride and a bit about Israel...&lt;/strong&gt;

Related blog posts

The Chinese-related blogsphere is slowly waking up to this story. Here are links to articles about this story from China-related blogs :...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>China : Sex, Pride and a bit about Israel&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Related blog posts</p>
<p>The Chinese-related blogsphere is slowly waking up to this story. Here are links to articles about this story from China-related blogs :&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Baker</title>
		<link>http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/comment-page-1/#comment-116</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 18:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/#comment-116</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Grendel, though I can&#039;t really take credit for something as respectable as &#039;sleuthing&#039;. I visited &#039;Sex and Shanghai&#039; once early on when it was still mostly the &#039;Sex&#039; part, rolled my eyes and moved on. When I noticed elsewhere that it had erupted into something bigger, I went back and read this and that on the trail and just noticed the comments at Sinosplice by chance. Other people have been aware of them for far longer.

And at this point I really don&#039;t know if I think it&#039;s &quot;real&quot; by a person in Shanghai, semi-real by a (theorhetical) &#039;pimple-faced geek in Denver&#039;, or a collaborative hoax. 

I do think, though, that the argument some make that &quot;It&#039;s got to be one person because the writing style is so consistent&quot; is silly. Ever heard of a style guide, people? It&#039;s entirely possible, if a group was serious about perpetrating a literary hoax, that they&#039;d generate an informal style guide (it&#039;s happened before; quite often among university English majors and college newspaper pundits; believe me, I know), or running all their content through a single &quot;editor.&quot; 

But at this point, finding out if it&#039;s true, semi-true, or a hoax is just a spectator sport, like &quot;Tune in next fall to find out who shot J.R.&quot; 

And apart from the vocal loose cannons on both sides of the aisle--young or immature Chinese spewing their anti-foreigner venom, young or immature foreigners spewing their anti-Chinese venom--and apart from some commentators who try to convince us of their intellectual superiority by taking time to comment that they&#039;re *not* going to comment on it all, and shame on the rest of us for doing so (rolls eyes again)--apart from them, that&#039;s really what it&#039;s been all along for the rest of us: a spectator sport.

And there&#039;s nothing wrong with that. Or, put another way, it&#039;s a normal human impulse to derive pleasure from watching other people make fools of themselves.

But no matter what, let&#039;s be careful not to confuse all this &#039;Chinabounder: Sex in Shanghai&#039; business with *real* front page China-related news, as the FoxConn vs. &lt;em&gt;China Business News&lt;/em&gt; reporters saga was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Grendel, though I can&#8217;t really take credit for something as respectable as &#8216;sleuthing&#8217;. I visited &#8216;Sex and Shanghai&#8217; once early on when it was still mostly the &#8216;Sex&#8217; part, rolled my eyes and moved on. When I noticed elsewhere that it had erupted into something bigger, I went back and read this and that on the trail and just noticed the comments at Sinosplice by chance. Other people have been aware of them for far longer.</p>
<p>And at this point I really don&#8217;t know if I think it&#8217;s &#8220;real&#8221; by a person in Shanghai, semi-real by a (theorhetical) &#8216;pimple-faced geek in Denver&#8217;, or a collaborative hoax. </p>
<p>I do think, though, that the argument some make that &#8220;It&#8217;s got to be one person because the writing style is so consistent&#8221; is silly. Ever heard of a style guide, people? It&#8217;s entirely possible, if a group was serious about perpetrating a literary hoax, that they&#8217;d generate an informal style guide (it&#8217;s happened before; quite often among university English majors and college newspaper pundits; believe me, I know), or running all their content through a single &#8220;editor.&#8221; </p>
<p>But at this point, finding out if it&#8217;s true, semi-true, or a hoax is just a spectator sport, like &#8220;Tune in next fall to find out who shot J.R.&#8221; </p>
<p>And apart from the vocal loose cannons on both sides of the aisle&#8211;young or immature Chinese spewing their anti-foreigner venom, young or immature foreigners spewing their anti-Chinese venom&#8211;and apart from some commentators who try to convince us of their intellectual superiority by taking time to comment that they&#8217;re *not* going to comment on it all, and shame on the rest of us for doing so (rolls eyes again)&#8211;apart from them, that&#8217;s really what it&#8217;s been all along for the rest of us: a spectator sport.</p>
<p>And there&#8217;s nothing wrong with that. Or, put another way, it&#8217;s a normal human impulse to derive pleasure from watching other people make fools of themselves.</p>
<p>But no matter what, let&#8217;s be careful not to confuse all this &#8216;Chinabounder: Sex in Shanghai&#8217; business with *real* front page China-related news, as the FoxConn vs. <em>China Business News</em> reporters saga was.</p>
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		<title>By: Grendel</title>
		<link>http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/comment-page-1/#comment-115</link>
		<dc:creator>Grendel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 17:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.chineseoutpost.com/2006/08/31/sex-in-shanghais-chinabounder-pimple-faced-geek-in-denver-or-traitor-in-our-midst/#comment-115</guid>
		<description>Good sleuth work on the digital trail of China Bounder. It&#039;s worth highlighting, though, of the fact that the &quot;hoax&quot; theory originated in Sydney Morning Herald by way of an email from the &quot;Bounder&quot;, and has not been corroborated by neither the blogosphere or MSM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good sleuth work on the digital trail of China Bounder. It&#8217;s worth highlighting, though, of the fact that the &#8220;hoax&#8221; theory originated in Sydney Morning Herald by way of an email from the &#8220;Bounder&#8221;, and has not been corroborated by neither the blogosphere or MSM.</p>
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